Are Downloads Dead? Steve Goldstein On the Future of Measurement

For years, marketers have used downloads to help determine their podcast spend. But now that podcasts exist in so many different formats and spaces—from long-form Netflix videos to short-form YouTube Shorts clips to live shows—it’s harder than ever to determine audience size. With so many platforms in play, how can creators know exactly what they’re selling?  More importantly, how can buyers know what they’re getting?

This week, Dan Granger (CEO & Founder, Oxford Road) hosts Steve Goldstein (Founder & CEO, Amplifi Media; Adjunct Professor, NYU) on Media Roundtable to talk about how $1-2B in additional growth can be unlocked if we ditch downloads and create a new universal and consistent metric.

Want the DL on downloads? Join Dan and Steve as they debate new methods of measurement and discuss what buyers need to be paying attention to as podcasting moves into its next phase.

“The money is going to flow to where the audience is. We have the audience. We have great shows…If we can verify the audience and present it in a unified sort of way, that’s where we need to be.”  – Steve Goldstein (Founder & CEO, Amplifi Media; Adjunct Professor, NYU)

The Audience Wants It Both Ways – When it comes to audio vs. video, Steve notes that in numerous studies, audiences have made it clear they want to consume their podcasts wherever and however they can. Despite what  you might have heard, audio isn’t perishing, and video isn’t always an easy win. So, before you invest in a show, learn how its audience behaves and make sure there’s transparency about whether their audience is listening, watching, or both.

Downloads Don’t Work – We all know the download has become an unreliable metric, but just how unreliable is it? According to Steve, many shows inflate download counts by as much as 50 percent. That may be why some platforms are moving away from downloads altogether. As Steve puts it: “If more podcasts stream on Spotify, and YouTube’s not even in that business, then we’re really just talking about Apple [in terms of downloads]. And if Apple’s video initiative kicks in, they’ll be out of the download game.” So what will be the best metric in the post-download era? Steve and Dan both agree: it’s plays and streams, which means you should start thinking about how to negotiate buys around a new set of numbers.

Reach for High Value Content – Everyone agrees there’s simply too much content to contend with nowadays. Steve’s suggestion for navigating the glut: Focus on what he calls High Value Content, or HVC (which is not to be confused with HVAC School, a niche podcast about HVAC installation that Steve enjoys). Steve defines HVC podcasts as shows that instill long-term loyalty, even if fans don’t necessarily consume every single episode. “[It’s when] people say, ‘I enjoy spending time listening to Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. But do I make it through every minute? No. I pick and choose.’” With increased competition, the shows that will prosper are the ones that build relationships with listeners and encourage them to come back out of habit.

For more deets on the download’s downfall, check out the full episode below.