Steven Bartlett and Ben Shapiro on the Power of Independent Media: CAO Summit 2025 Fireside Chat

This week on the Media Roundtable, we’re bringing you inside the opening fireside chat from the 2025 Chief Audio Officer Summit, featuring two of the most influential voices in independent media today: Steven Bartlett (Host of Diary of a CEO, Founder of FLIGHTSTORY) and Ben Shapiro (Host of The Ben Shapiro Show, Co-Founder of The Daily Wire).

In a conversation with Dan Granger (CEO, Oxford Road), with a stunning oceanfront sunset as their backdrop, our guests get into the real trade-offs of staying independent, especially in the face of nine-figure offers; the discipline behind their respective growth; and how brands can unlock substantial results when they lean into creator-led partnerships.

“Independence, in this moment, is a good marker for a lot of listeners and audiences of authenticity. People want to feel like they’re not just tuning in to an institution.  They want to feel like they’re tuning in to a person.” – Ben Shapiro (Host of The Ben Shapiro Show, Co-Founder of The Daily Wire)

Experimenting for Exponential Growth: Steven Bartlett breaks down how his Head of Failure team (yes, you read that right, that’s a real department at FlightStory) tests 300–400 variables per episode: from punctuation in titles to the CO₂ levels in the recording room. One tweak to the first 10 seconds of an episode drove a 350% subscriber lift—proof that small tests can unlock massive growth.

Striking the Right Ad Load Balance: Both Bartlett and Shapiro (as well as your Oxford Road team) agree: fewer, better ads win. Bartlett flatly rejected a $100M deal that would have stuffed his show with “12 adverts in a podcast,” insisting host reads must be content, and judged by retention and results, rather than just units sold.

Letting Creators Cook: Shapiro’s advice to brands: “Get us really familiar with your product—and then let us cook.” These creators know their audience better than anyone else, and they’re not going to expend their own brand equity on just anything. Give them some freedom and they can deliver endorsements that feel personal, perform stronger, and build brand loyalty that lasts.

For advertisers seeking to connect with enigmatic hosts who understand how to engage their audiences, Bartlett and Shapiro are the gold standard. For the full conversation, check out the full episode below.